Home Podcasts The Dudecast Episode #2: Male Body Image

The Dudecast Episode #2: Male Body Image

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Welcome to The Dudecast. Nick Morpus and Garrett Carlson have decided to start a podcast about exploring American Masculinity and together are sitting down to have real talks about vulnerability, introspection, and what it means to be a man.

Today’s episode is about male body image, and how the media has influenced an entire generation of young men as to what is the perfect body.

Show Highlights:

  • What do to do during quarantine when it comes to haircuts?
  • How is the quarantine affecting male body image?
  • How do you exercise while being stuck inside?
  • The best kind of Dino-nuggets
  • Is it normal to feel uncomfortable with your body?
  • What does healthy exercise look like?

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Transcript

Garrett Carlson  0:00  
You’re listening to the dude cast a podcast about American masculinity. My name is Garrett and I’m the founder of Dudefluencer. 

Nick Morpus  0:07  
And I’m Nick Morpus. And I’m just here to say things to throw Garrett off his office rocker. And together we’re sitting down to have talks about vulnerability, introspection and what it means to be a man. 

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Garrett Carlson  0:19  
In today’s episode, we talk about how the media influences male body image

Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen to the Dudecast. My name is Garrett and sitting across from me is Nick, how are you today? 

Nick Morpus  0:39  
Oh, not too bad. I’m here to be the voice of unreasonable reason. 

Garrett Carlson  0:45  
I don’t even know what that means. 

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Nick Morpus  0:46  
I don’t either. Let’s try it out. See this how this goes. 

Garrett Carlson  0:50  
I thought you’re gonna go with voiceless. Say those those who have no voice, you’re speaking for all of them. 

Nick Morpus  0:59  
No, I usually people talk way too much having been on social media. Trust me, everyone has a voice and it’s it’s not the best thing in the world.

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Garrett Carlson  1:09  
I don’t know what social media is. Never used it.

Nick Morpus  1:15  
Never used it. 

Garrett Carlson  1:16  
Nope. Speaking of social, I’m sure you’ve been plenty social during the quarantine. 

Nick Morpus  1:23  
Oh my god. Yeah. I mean, I’m going out clubbing every night in my mind.

Garrett Carlson  1:29  
Or in Georgia. 

Nick Morpus  1:31  
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Well, my brother, so just for some context. My, my younger brother Ben. He’s in the Marine Corps and he’s stationed on the in Georgia right on the Florida Georgia line. And I was talking to him this morning. And apparently things have been like, just because the governor just started opening things up. A lot of businesses are deciding not to open and so he’s like, he’s still stuck on base with absolutely nothing to do.

Garrett Carlson  2:03  
Yeah, that that has to suck. I’m also like, I was trying to think about this, like, how do you socially distance someone while you’re cutting their hair? Like you can’t unless you’re Edward Scissorhands? 

Nick Morpus  2:17  
Absolutely not. I mean, that was at the beginning of this whole corn team thing. I didn’t know how long this was going to go. like five weeks ago. I like shaved my head, my hairs back now, but shaved my head.

Garrett Carlson  2:30  
I’m gonna be honest with you, Rachel, Rachel wants to shave my head. I’m worried my hair won’t ever go back.

Nick Morpus  2:38  

Just that worried. 

Garrett Carlson  2:40  

That is a real fear. And I’m like this quarantine will end like the next day. And I’m going to show up and I got this stupid widow’s peak and my hair is never going to go back and then I have to shave my head. And I’m going to look like Jesse Eisenberg and Batman vs. Superman. 

Nick Morpus  2:54  

Oh, nice. Oh, like a mad genius or something? Next career. Career pivot.

Garrett Carlson  3:03  

That’s that’s actually that’s going to be the name of my new book, Career Pivot

Nick Morpus  3:10  

How I became a mad scientist

Garrett Carlson  3:17  

But for for serious sake even though everything we just said was really serious. I think it’s important for us to talk a little bit about male body image. And there’s this is probably a really good time to talk about it because right now, I read an article about something called the quarantine 15. Have you heard that?

Nick Morpus  3:42  

Everyone’s gaining weight during the quarantine? 

Garrett Carlson  3:45  

Yeah, because there isn’t a whole lot of, there’s no gyms are open. There’s fear of going outside. So people are just indulging, eating in a lot more or eating takeout? I don’t know, what are your thoughts on that? 

Nick Morpus  4:07  

I mean, it makes perfect sense. This is before this whole quarantine thing was going on. Since January, I’ve been going to the gym consistently, I’ve actually lost 20 pounds since since January. And when Oregon decided to institute their statewide stay at home order, I was a little upset only because that meant that I wouldn’t be able to go to the gym. But luckily I’ve found ways to still stay active, go running, go hiking, stuff like that, still socially distancing, but getting in all my exercise that I need. But at the same time, it’s a lot more challenging and I could see a whole lot of people probably struggling with this especially those who are dealing with the anxiety of losing their job or paying bills, things like that.

Garrett Carlson  5:07  

Yeah, I completely agree. I know on my end, I’ve been extremely anxious just all the time about everything. And like I had been I’ve eaten so much frozen pizza. And, like frozen pizza isn’t good. No, it’s not only not good for you, it’s just not good. 

Nick Morpus  5:33  

No, it’s like not worth it. If I’m gonna eat frozen food. It’s gonna be like chicken nuggets or something. 

Garrett Carlson  5:38  

Ooh, dinosaur nuggets. 

Nick Morpus  5:40  

Oh my god, you’re just like my girlfriend. We were at the store like a month or two ago. And I was like, oh, maybe she gets some chicken nuggets because usually I’m cooking and I eventually I just want to not cook sometimes. So it’s like, oh, let’s get some chicken nuggets. And of course her she’s like but what about the dino nuggets points them out.

Garrett Carlson  5:59  

There was a guy that I knew. I mean, I still know him is not dead. But his go to move for with women was Do you want to come back to my place and watch the Lion King and eat Dino nuggets?

Nick Morpus  6:13  

I feel like that would actually work. 

Garrett Carlson  6:17  

It did it did I come back with my buddy to his place and he’s got three women over just chowing down on dino nuggets. Well, whatever happened to the Lion King happens. 

Nick Morpus  6:34  

Damn that. That’s actually that’s a great idea. I never would have thought of something like that. 

Garrett Carlson  6:41  

Well, I just blew up his spot. 

Nick Morpus  6:44  

I’ll have to pass that wisdom on to my to my eventual son. If I ever if I ever have one. 

Garrett Carlson  6:52  

That will be the first and only lesson you share. 

Nick Morpus  6:55  

Exactly. It’s like if there’s one thing you need to know in this world. You bring women home using Dino nuggets in the Lion King. 

Garrett Carlson  7:02  

That’s it. That’s all you need. 

Nick Morpus  7:04  

Instead of Netflix and chill, it’s Dino nuggets and I got nothing to rhyme with that.

Garrett Carlson  7:11  

Our listeners will figure that out. It’ll go on a T shirt.

Nick Morpus  7:16  

Positive body image.

Garrett Carlson  7:20  

So I don’t know about you, but when I was younger, so I’ve always been skinny. And like when I say skinny, I don’t mean like, lean. I mean, like, when I was in high school, like my ribs were showing. It wasn’t that I didn’t eat. It was I was just kind of tall and I had a really fast metabolism. 

Nick Morpus  7:45  

Oh, yeah, I got that.

Garrett Carlson  7:47  

And that was always a part of me. Obviously, like gym class, like changing. There’s sort of this being self conscious, but I did probably like the worst thing you could possibly do if your subconscious about your body and that was joined the wrestling team. And imagine putting on a singlet and like the singlet is it tight like the singlet like hangs off of you?

Nick Morpus  8:20  

Yeah, I get that. I joined my freshman year of high school I joined the football team and they I was so skinny at that age that when they gave me, the pad pants, they were they didn’t have any in my size left. So I got these like kind of baggy ones. And of course that earned me the nickname MC Hammer. That was fun.

Garrett Carlson  8:48  

That’s, that’s a weird choice of nickname. 

Nick Morpus  8:52  

Well, baggy because the the padded pants only go down to like, they’re only supposed to come down to like your knees, but mine just long enough just because I wish I was taller, but these were like big pants and they kind of came halfway down my shins. So kind of looking like I have the parachute MC Hammer pants. 

Garrett Carlson  9:12  

So the the other kids who are calling you like MC Hammer, like what was their body type like? 

Nick Morpus  9:19  

Oh, that was the coach’s nickname. 

Garrett Carlson  9:21  

Oh, Jesus.

Nick Morpus  9:25  

I was like the kid who played guitar and drew and stuff like that. And skateboarded so I mean, I wasn’t particularly muscular either. I was very skinny my entire life. I have ADHD. So I was taking Adderall for years and I was just super, super skinny. Kind of like you described like, you can see the rib cage and everything. And the other kids on the football team. They were typically not not all of them. Of course. There were some others in that we’re kind of in my situation as well. And I just kind of wanted to give it a shot. And so some of the other kids you have the ones who like be in the gym all the time and everything so they were just they were pretty strong, pretty big and everything really fast. That was always fun. I didn’t I didn’t start actually really gaining weight and building muscle and everything till what my senior year of high school.

Garrett Carlson  10:29  

And was that sort of a was that a purposeful choice? Or was that just something that was your body naturally sort of growing and changing? 

Nick Morpus  10:38  

Both. I decided I just didn’t want to be skinny anymore. I wanted to have some muscle at the time I was trying to get in the Marine Corps anyway. So I wanted to have some muscle going in and my dad is a he used to be skinny, like I was during that age, but my dad is a pretty big guy. Now and I started going to the gym with him having him teach me things and everything. So if, for any of you out there, who, if you’ve been like, if you’ve never really worked out, and then you start, that’s always the best time, like you’re gonna see the most results. So in the period of like six months, I saw these huge changes to my body just starting to work out, it’s actually kind of wish I was in that position again, just because when you start working out for the first time, your body will just automatically respond, you’ll see results like within a month, and I mean, you’re not going to be huge anything but you’re gonna start seeing some real results and it’s awesome. But yeah, I didn’t start gaining that kind of weight. Until then, actually, I didn’t really start significantly gaining weight till I hit 21. And of course, that’s when it’s an all you want beer fest at that point. So we can ascribe some of the weight gain to that.

Garrett Carlson  11:58  

That makes sense. To go back a little bit to your gym point, I was never really a gym goer, I was always sort of self conscious. But the one thing that I learned was I actually really enjoyed the gym that I went to in Virginia, because everyone was actually really, really welcoming. And it was it was really just kind of nice to see. And it wasn’t what I was expecting when I entered sort of like, when I moved from machines to free weights. I wasn’t expecting sort of this community to come together. But but it did. And I think that helped a lot. At least when I first got started in exercising. 

Nick Morpus  12:46  

Oh, yeah, I mean, that’s huge. There’s just I just don’t see any point in putting someone down for going to the gym going. actually making the decision to go to the gym is like the hardest part. And, why would you want to put someone down for that? The positivity is exactly, exactly sometimes what you need to keep going.

Garrett Carlson  13:08  

So when you’re a kid, was there any sort of television programs or actors or movies or anything of the sort that sort of would look at and be I want to look like that when I’m older or I wish I look like that. 

Nick Morpus  13:26  

Oh, of course, when I was younger, my favorite one of my favorite movies for the the Rocky movies, I used to love watching those and then, every time I mean even to this day, I mean, I understand now at this age, just how hard it is to attain a body like that. It’s just the the amount of commitment it requires is like beyond the time and money that I have, but even still, it’s it’s great workout motivation, but yeah, that was just something I always aspired to when I was younger, who wouldn’t want to look like Rocky Balboa, a heavyweight boxing champion of the world? That’s was just very normal, I guess. 

Garrett Carlson  14:08  

So, and I think you touched on a really good point there and that Rocky’s body wasn’t natural Sylvester Stallone’s body like, he didn’t do that by himself. 

Nick Morpus  14:19  

Oh no, especially in like his later films now, the introduction of HGH, human growth hormones. So many, like aging actors will use that to kind of buff up their bodies for movies just because at their age, it’s not possible to reach that kind of build, at least it’s not possible within a short amount of time. I mean, this isn’t, I mean, it is possible to get that body naturally, it’s just really hard. If you’re not spending seven hours in the gym every single day like Arnold Schwarzenegger back in the Golden Age. I mean, to get Rocky’s body. At   a certain age you need to either dedicate hours and hours and hours in the gym and meticulous dieting or you can still work out hard at the gym but you use supplements like HGH which costs thousands of dollars. It’s just not it’s not realistic, it’s not feasible for most people. 

Garrett Carlson  15:21  

And all those chemicals are still dangerous. There’s still, at least from from my limited knowledge, like there are still side effects that 

Nick Morpus  15:34  

Oh, yeah. For stuff like for stuff like that, yeah, I mean, if we’re just talking protein powder and creatine, those are pretty safe. But yeah, that’s that’s the kind of to get those kind of bodies using HGH and stuff like that. Yeah, there are side effects, steroids, HGH, things like that, but they cost a lot of money. It’s not feasible for the regular person. And yeah, it is. It’s not just healthy to be, pumping yourself up and stuff like that.

Garrett Carlson  16:06  

Absolutely. I read a research report recently that talked about young boys being really unhappy with their bodies. And that was something that kind of when I first read it, I took a step back because it wasn’t something I was expecting to read. But the more I’ve sort of sat on it and thought about it, the more it makes sense because so much of the conversation is about young women, and sort of what they’re told that a young age what they’re supposed to look like. But there are also these, this generation of young boys who are internalizing what they see. I love Avengers endgame. I also think they could have done a lot more with the Thor sort of transformation.

Nick Morpus  17:05  

It’s interesting about that because I mean, part of my inspiration for getting back into shape and I’ve been kind of using his workout routine is is Chris Hemsworth is his physique as Thor and some of the other movies I understand I won’t be able to reach exactly that. But using a scaled down version of his routine and diet is shown to have great results. But in Endgame, they kind of up ended that by turning him into the butt of the joke by getting a beer belly. And yeah, I think you wrote in your article about this very topic. Yelling at people over video games and stuff like that and just making them the butt of the joke all the time. What’s interesting about it is I actually thought while I saw the movie for the first time was that they were kind of kind of just up end all of that by the end of it, and he was going to make this magical transformation back into the Thor that he wants was super strong, but they actually kept him the same. And I don’t know, I wonder what kind of message they were trying to send with that maybe saying that like, Thor is okay with who he is. Or just keeping the joke going. I wasn’t 100% sure, but I can see where something like that might just making consistently the butt of the joke. I mean, I can understand a joke or two about it only because it’s like, well, it’s Thor. He’s super muscular. He’s always been muscular. And to see him in this completely other light, as as the god of thunder is drinking tons of beer and sitting in a house with his friends just playing video games. I can see how that that’d be funny. And it was funny. I thought it was funny. But I wonder what message they were trying to send by the end of it if any message at all. 

Garrett Carlson  19:08  

So so my guess in terms of serve, the message that we’re trying to send was that it wasn’t about sort of Thor’s physique or body like he still had the heart of sort of a leader. And he was just as strong as it was before. And, and like, I could see that it took it takes some reading into the movie to because they’re not very explicit about that. And I think what I would have appreciated was actually something more explicit, because I don’t know how many little kids are going to watch that movie and get that message. 

Nick Morpus  19:47  

Mmhmm.

Garrett Carlson  19:49  

Like that is a little bit beyond what people are expecting from a Marvel movie. 

Nick Morpus  19:55  

Yeah, Marvel doesn’t isn’t really known for going deep on issues. They kind of keep it on the surface.

Garrett Carlson  20:02  

Exactly. Him being the butt of the joke, like there should have been some acknowledgement that, like, , none of that mattered. And I think there’s, there’s like so much to talk about in terms of just the Thor character itself and trauma and and how we respond to it but like I did want to see a little bit more of an explicit like an explicit, like, you still got it. You’re still Thor. 

Nick Morpus  20:45  

I think they kind of did that at the end having him fight Thanos the way that he did. But yeah, maybe something a little more explicit would have been nice because I mean it’s interesting about these kinds of seeing Chris Hemsworth as Thor. I brought up how I liked the rocky movies when I was a kid. And back then it wasn’t as easy to get that information about, like, “Yo, what does it take to look like that?” And that can lead probably to feelings of inadequacy, like, Oh my god, I don’t look like that, but then I must not be a real man or something like that. And nowadays, every single celebrity out there who is muscular is putting out some, some kind of video or a series of videos about how to look like me or how to look like this for like I did for this movie. And in a way, I think that’s kind of positive. Like we’re moving in the right direction. Just saying like, listen, you can have this body but it’s extremely difficult. It doesn’t make you less of a man if you don’t look like this. It just takes tons and tons commitment and dieting and exercise. And if you’re older supplements, let’s just call it that. Yeah, I can see how these kinds of things like can definitely have an impact. I mean, you see, the average body on Thor, and it’s made the butt of the joke more for the sake of the fact that He is a God. But it still is interesting how how a man not being super strong is considered more socially acceptable only because it is focused on a lot. The body positivity thing for women, not so much for men. So, that’s kind of like the thoughts I got from that.

Garrett Carlson  22:57  

Yeah, I agree. I think there is one of the things that I’m sure we’re going to touch on throughout these podcast episodes is the fact that a lot of these issues have been talked about amongst women and for women for a really long time. And men just haven’t figured out how to have these conversations quite yet. 

Nick Morpus  23:22  

I definitely agree. I mean, for something like this, the conversation usually goes as far as like, if you’re not this strong or whatever, you’re not a real man, and is it something like maybe men feel insecure to go into a topic like this? Like, go into their feelings about what it what, what does it feel like it? What is it to be a man? Really?

Garrett Carlson  23:54  

Yeah, yeah. I like as you were talking, it reminded me, I don’t know, if you’ve watched The Netflix reality show Too Hot to Handle? 

Nick Morpus  24:03  

No, I haven’t. 

Garrett Carlson  24:04  

Rachel’s obsessed.

Nick Morpus  24:06  

My sister talked about it. I haven’t seen it though. 

Garrett Carlson  24:10  

One of the things that like when you watch it even in the first episode is like almost every guy is really muscular. And not only that, they make sure to say like their alpha, like six or seven times in episode. I roll it. Yeah. And it’s sort of that like, if I am muscular then I am alpha. And, amongst friend groups, if all of you are single in some way, or I shouldn’t say it’s only like if all of you are single, like there is sort of that. I have seen that pack mentality of like, who is the leader who is the alpha? 

Nick Morpus  24:54  

Oh, yeah, and half of it is just a mental game, but yeah. I actually cringe I cringe every time someone tries to use, like the terms alpha and beta to somehow, like ascribe manliness or something to certain men. It just, it drives me absolutely nuts. it okay for the record for any of our listeners out there, I’m pretty sure you agree with this too. We’re not crapping on anyone who has muscular bodies or anything. There’s nothing wrong with wanting to be physically in fit in shape. I do it. I like being in shape. I got tired of kind of, being bigger. I just didn’t feel very healthy. I was having problems with my heart and stuff like that. I just didn’t want that. So I started getting in shape. But when we talk about these things, like, where you look down on some other man just because he doesn’t go to the gym as much as you he doesn’t look like you. Calling betas and ascribing the title alpha to yourself it’s very frustrating and I think it just keeps this continuous cycle going of men just feeling horrible about themselves just because they don’t look like look like one of the guys on the Jersey Shore or yeah that what does that show too hot to handle? What is it? Yeah What is it about? 

Garrett Carlson  26:24  

Oh geez ah so it’s basically like eight sex addicts, put them on an island and then they’re not allowed to have sex. Like that’s that’s that’s the show

Nick Morpus  26:39  

That actually doesn’t sound like that bad of a premise that sounds kind of entertaining. 

Garrett Carlson  26:46  

It is fascinating. Sometimes it’s really funny sometimes it’s just really uncomfortable. But as you were saying earlier or a minute or two ago about, being physically fit like? Absolutely. I completely agree. Like I do think that there it’s less maybe about body type and more about attitude and how you present yourself.

Nick Morpus  27:19  

Yep, exactly. I definitely agree. Because, gosh, getting on these kinds of topics is always like, in some ways it’s kind of a minefield,  , you have no idea what you’re gonna step on. But yeah, I feel like most people who talk about these kinds of things like, it should be focused more on the attitude what is the motivation behind wanting to be in shape or look like a certain way, and discussions should be had about whether or not the attitude or motivation is healthy or not. If it’s just if you feel like less of a man because you’re not in shape, that’s not a very healthy motivation or attitude to have to, get into shape because then at some point, you’re going to reach a point where it’s never enough. And you do reach a certain stage of kind of dysmorphia where you think that, like, oh, gosh, like I made this much progress, but doesn’t matter because I don’t look like this person when it’s just completely unattainable. 

Garrett Carlson  28:29  

It’s sort of that it’s never enough. 

Nick Morpus  28:32  

Yep, exactly. 

Garrett Carlson  28:33  

And I think that, we have, because men and dads just don’t really bring it up very often. Young men kind of have no idea what’s normal. 

Nick Morpus  28:50  

Right? And that’s true. 

Garrett Carlson  28:52  

So what they see is normal is typically what’s on television and what’s on television is you either need to be really fit. Or you can be out of shape, but you need to be funny.

Nick Morpus  29:09  

Yeah, or super smart? 

Garrett Carlson  29:11  

Or super smart. Yeah. And like you’re kind of almost pushed in these directions, one way or the other. And it is disheartening to just know that there’s young people, boys and girls who feel, at the age of six years old uncomfortable with our bodies, like that should be the last thing they’re worried about. 

Nick Morpus  29:38  

Yeah, I mean, especially, when you’re younger, they teach us to young girls, and it’s true, but I think and I think it’s just as true for boys. When you’re younger and you’re a teenager and you’re worried about your body in the way it looks. It’s going through so many changes it, you’re never going to look like an adult and it’s unfortunate that so many teenage girls and teenage boys see these adult role models. And they think to themselves that they should look like that when it’s just, it’s not possible for them and I talked about those guys on my football team who were pretty muscular and they were for their age group, but your body is growing so much, there’s no way you can pack on the kind of muscle you would need to look like some of these people you see on television, and I feel like maybe that just that really needs to be communicated a lot more to so that people understand at least young people understand, what is actually possible for their age group. And what’s actually normal? Because I mean,  , you watch any of these shows for teenagers, or, young adults, and they’re, once focused around high schoolers, and you’ll see so many of the actors are in their either their mid 20s early to mid 20s, sometimes even late 20s playing high schoolers, and that they have these unrealistic body proportions for teenagers because they’re that old. And, I guess as an example, I’ve been showing my girlfriend, empties serialized version of Scream just because I’m a horror movie buff. And I thought the show was, decent. It was pretty decent as far as the story goes. And so many of the actors are played by these people in their mid 20s. And it’s just, it’s insane. I could see so many kids watching that and thinking, why don’t I look like that? Why don’t I look like that?  ? And it is it’s just, it’s nuts. I feel like it just communicates the wrong message. 

Garrett Carlson  31:52  

Absolutely. I do you think there is like to sort of kind of round out our conversation because I I know that there’s so much more about this topic that we could touch on. Let’s talk and let’s try and identify some of the positive examples of male body image that that we’re seeing. I know I’ve seen Chris Pratt and interviews talk about, be honest about his weight and his body and really what it takes to to kind of get there. 

Nick Morpus  32:26  

Mm hmm.

Garrett Carlson  32:28  

Which I think is I think that is a really good step in the for a good first step in the right direction.

Nick Morpus  32:36  

I definitely agree. I think you also in your article, you talked about that one guy from Silicon Valley, who’s going to be in Marvel’s eternals 

Garrett Carlson  32:44  

Yeah, Kumail. Yeah, him. 

Nick Morpus  32:49  

Before all that, I watched Silicon Valley. He was really skinny. It was a skinny guy. And it’s very great to see  , people like at least acknowledging that being like, Listen, like you may want to look like this. And that’s great if you do just understand how much time and effort and commitment that it takes that this is not something that just happens naturally and you shouldn’t feel bad if you don’t have that, those resources and time to do that.

Garrett Carlson  33:23  

Absolutely. I am hoping that as sort of these conversations become more common. And we start to really open up about these issues that are affecting men that we start to be able to pinpoint more of these positive examples in society. Especially for young boys, because I think more than anything they’re the ones who are being influenced the most because they don’t have the worldly knowledge and access to knowledge that people our age do. 

Nick Morpus  34:08  

I agree. It’s a, it’s rough, it’s rough out there. I hope that we can kind of move towards a much more open discussion. Because I mean, I know I’m sure   too, men are not always the best of discussing their emotions and their feelings, even though they should. We can reach a point where we can have more open discussions about what, what is it to be a man, what is it to, I guess I’m having a hard time putting my thoughts together. But, if we can just get to a point where it’s actually healthy and encouraged to discuss these things, the better it might be, for some men so they don’t have to feel like they have to turn to things like dangerous supplements and substances in order to look like the people that they see on TV.

Garrett Carlson  35:02  

Yeah. And even like a larger context, I think it was Michael Ian Black who wrote this in one of his op eds. But he said something along the lines of like these conversations have been, like taking place in feminism for the last 50 years. And we have seen sort of how women have changed socially, physically, like they feminism has changed what it means to be a woman. And men are kind of just stuck in neutral.

Nick Morpus  35:41  

Yeah, I could see that. I mean, I’ve seen some positive changes and in the way that men talk about their certain issues, but there is definitely and I think this is this goes with any kind of social change or movement is that  , as it starts as it starts out and begins to pick up steam, it’s definitely going to get some resistance. Like, oh gosh mentioned talk about their feelings. I ironically make jokes about it with my girlfriend. She’s gotten me to open up a lot more and speak about my emotions more to her. But I still every once in a while make jokes like Haha, I’m man, I don’t talk about feelings, and but the thing is there is a pretty prevalent mindset of that, that, Oh, we got to resist these calls for men to talk about these issues?

Garrett Carlson  36:36  

Yes. And I think I think that’s where we’re going to hopefully continue going with this. This podcast is, I know for myself it was seeing examples of other men have these conversations that made me say, okay, so it’s alright to feel this way. It’s alright to talk about this stuff. And,  , I hope that for you and others we continue to kind of add to the conversation. And, we can also be a part of these positive changes for men.

Nick Morpus  37:15  

I hope so too. I swear, I swear to our listeners, this is not just because we’re funded by big therapy that we’re pushing these,  ?

Garrett Carlson  37:30  

Today today’s episode sponsored by E-Health.com. Use code word Dudecast for 50% off your first session. That is key word Dudecast. I don’t know if that’s a real site or not

Nick Morpus  37:50  

And brought to you by Raid Shadow Legends.

Garrett Carlson  37:55  

If you’re looking for an action packed mobile phone game that works on iOS and Android

Nick Morpus  38:00  

Just watch you’re gonna get like a cease and desist from Raid Shadow Legends be like stop making fun of us. 

Garrett Carlson  38:06  

Is that a real game? 

Nick Morpus  38:07  

Oh yeah, it is. Wait. You’ve never if you’re on YouTube at all like any gamer channel that you go on, that’s always usually the sponsor. Nowadays, everyone’s being sponsored by raid shadow legends, so, and I always wonder every time they bring it up, I’m like, does this guy actually play this game or not? I don’t know. It’s supposed to be like one of those Final Fantasy RPGs or something.

Garrett Carlson  38:31  

It was like when Kate Upton was the spokeswoman for whatever that medieval times. 

Nick Morpus  38:37  

Yes, I remember that. Yes.

Garrett Carlson  38:41  

Come on. Let’s be out as Kate Upton is not playing,  , Middle Ages Total War, whatever it is. 

Nick Morpus  38:47  

Wait, she’s not.

Garrett Carlson  38:49  

No.

Nick Morpus  38:50  

Man. 

Garrett Carlson  38:51  

The only person who’s ever really played those games was Mr. T. Because he was in World of Warcraft. 

Nick Morpus  38:57  

My whole life is a lie.

Garrett Carlson  39:00  

Yeah, you’re learning.

Nick Morpus  39:05  

Alright then. 

Garrett Carlson  39:07  

Alright, so. what was that? 

Nick Morpus  39:11  

I was gonna say, I was gonna say, let’s just hope we don’t get that cease and desist letter. We’re just kidding raid if you want to sponsor us though that’d be pretty awesome. 

Garrett Carlson  39:19  

That’d be hysterical. We’d have the best ad buys. 

Nick Morpus  39:23  

Oh my god, dude, well,   what? Raid if you’re listening if someone at raid is listening, I’ll play your game. I’ll give it a shot. I’ll see what it’s like just, sponsor an episode or two. And I’ll just I’ll take all my time out of Modern Warfare. And and I will join the fight in Raid Shadow Legends. 

Garrett Carlson  39:43  

Here we go. We’re just gonna we’re gonna we’re gonna ad-lib this one right here. 

Nick Morpus  39:47  

I’m selling out I don’t care anymore.

Garrett Carlson  39:51  

Play raid shadow legends mobile MMO RPG strategy game. You can battle your way through a visually stunning realistic fantasy RPG with hundreds of champions including a green guy with a mohawk, amnd a woman who looks like Captain Marvel and the Night King.

Nick Morpus

Nailed it. 

Garrett Carlson

Available on iOS and Android. Ladies and gentlemen, we hope you’ve enjoyed this. This is just the beginning of our conversations. Do you have any final thoughts you’d like to share?

Nick Morpus 
Play Raid Shadow Legends. And if you don’t look like Chris Hemsworth, that’s okay. You’re still a man.

Garrett Carlson

So for Nick, my name is Garrett, hope you enjoyed listening. Have a great day.

Garrett Michael Carlson
Garrett Carlson is the founder of Dudefluencer.com, an online men's magazine dedicated to publishing articles around positive masculinity and men's self-care. A graduate of the Johns Hopkins Non-Fiction writing program, he loves to break traditional storytelling norms intermixing personal narrative, comedy, and research to talk about men's issues. Garrett currently lives in Northern Virginia with his wife, two cats, and Icelandic Sheepdog, Orla.

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