Home Podcasts The Dudecast Episode 3: Pop Punk and Masculinity

The Dudecast Episode 3: Pop Punk and Masculinity

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Welcome to The Dudecast. Nick Morpus and Garrett Carlson have decided to start a podcast about exploring American Masculinity and together are sitting down to have real talks about vulnerability, introspection, and what it means to be a man.

In today’s episode, Nick and Garrett discuss murder hornets, what’s going on in the world of Twitter, and the relationship between music and masculinity.

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Transcript

Garrett Carlson 0:02
Welcome, ladies and gentlemen to the dude cast. My name is Garrett and sitting across from me, as usual is Nick, how are you today?

Nick Morpus 0:09
I’m doing pretty alright. Yeah, it’s a Saturday, it’s kind of beautiful day outside. Can’t really complain.

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Garrett Carlson 0:20
And I’m assuming you’re inside.

Nick Morpus 0:22
Always. We’re all inside forever.

Garrett Carlson 0:29
Yeah. You know, I’m just gonna throw this out there. I forgot to mention this to you earlier. But, so not only do we have to deal with the Coronavirus, but the New York Times published an article today about the Murder Hornet. Have you heard of this?

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Nick Morpus 0:46
You know, it’s it’s funny. I just saw that that’s trending on Twitter, and I have no idea what that is. Oh, dear. Oh, dear god, I just clicked on it. It’s terrifying.

Garrett Carlson 0:58
Yeah. It’s massive. So for those of you who don’t know what the Murder Hornet is, it looks almost like three inches long.

Nick Morpus 1:09
Eww, I don’t like that get that off my screen.

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Garrett Carlson 1:14
The murder Hornet is a thing. Apparently, it was primarily based in Asia and they’re worried that they’re going to kill the bee population in America. And what they do is, these wasps, I think there is it murder Hornet or Murder wasp?

Nick Morpus 1:32
Murder Hornet.

Garrett Carlson 1:34
So the Hornet will like decapitate the bees

Nick Morpus 1:38
Does it have anything better to do.

Garrett Carlson 1:41
Probably not.

Nick Morpus 1:44
I guess that’s why they call it Murder Hornet. Oh my god.

Garrett Carlson 1:49
So the stinger is long enough to go through your pant leg and go through a beekeeper suit. The guy said it felt like he was being stabbed by flaming hot thumbtacks.

Nick Morpus 2:07
Man, 2020 just can’t let up can it?

Garrett Carlson 2:12
2020, I’d argue is the worst

Nick Morpus 2:18
Yeah. Like what like so what we almost had World War 3 in January. Didn’t someone really important die that we’re all really upset about? I can’t keep track anymore. 2020 is going by like, it feels like it’s been a few years in one year.

Garrett Carlson 2:36
Tom Hanks almost died.

Nick Morpus 2:38
Tom Hanks almost died. And we got the Coronavirus. And oh, we had all those wildfires in Australia. And now we have a Murder Hornet.

Garrett Carlson 2:51
It’s like bad news followed by more bad news followed by more bad news and we just forget about all the other bad news because it just keeps getting worse.

Nick Morpus 3:01
Well, I think Twitter’s kind of feeling the same way because right now hashtag I am getting so tired of is a is trending on Twitter.

Garrett Carlson 3:12
So this is actually a great lead in for our segment of the day today, which is “What’s trending?” where Nick and I were going to go through our different Twitter lists and see what is trending. So what was that Nick?

Nick Morpus 3:25

Iamgettingsotiredofit.

Garrett Carlson 3:30
Are there any good responses?

Nick Morpus 3:31
At least a third of them are Coronavirus related. A third of them are stuff about Trump people. And then the other. The last third is like any random thing like for instance, I am getting so tired of the cardboard aftermath of my online shopping sprees. Okay, I am getting so tired of eating homemade bread. Said no one ever.

Garrett Carlson 3:59
Who’s making bread?

Nick Morpus 4:00
Apparently a lot of people. I think my girlfriend and I were just talking about this the other day. Apparently it’s like this big thing during the lockdown to learn how to make sourdough. Everyone’s making sourdough now. That’s a thing.

Garrett Carlson 4:18
All right. That’s strange.

Nick Morpus 4:22
I mean, I love bread too. But I guess yeah, this is this is a big thing. Everyone’s making sourdough now.

Garrett Carlson 4:30
So on my end, we have #worldnakedgardeningday.

Nick Morpus 4:37
I got that one.

Garrett Carlson 4:39
And, yeah, I don’t even know.

Nick Morpus 4:43
I don’t think my property manager would appreciate that very much.

Garrett Carlson 4:51
Well, you know, sometimes you just need to do what you got to do.

Nick Morpus 4:54
Yeah, that’s true. Did you actually click on it?

Garrett Carlson 4:57
Yeah, it’s weird.

Nick Morpus 5:00
Do you see the guy with the lawnmower?

Garrett Carlson 5:03
That’s like the only picture for like most of these. Just a naked guy. Muscular, but naked dude just mowin the lawn. I bet you that’s like, like two blocks away from where you live.

Nick Morpus 5:22
You know? I actually hope it is.

Garrett Carlson 5:25
That looks like something that would be happening in your neighborhood.

Nick Morpus 5:27
Oh yeah, definitely. And what then there’s like a nobody else just just that guy. Did he start the trend? Oh, no, there’s other people. Nevermind. Let’s see here we have hashtag Battle of Hogwarts. Not that’s the cat. Oh, is this a today supposed to be like the day that like the battle of Hogwarts happened. This is a hashtag I like.

Garrett Carlson 6:03
I’ve never read or seen any of the Harry Pottervbooks or movies.

Nick Morpus 6:09
Really? Is it because like your parents are really religious or something like that?

Garrett Carlson 6:14
No, by the time so my aunt bought me I think the first Harry Potter book by the time like, I don’t know, I just felt I was disinterested in it. I had no interest in reading as a as a kid.

Nick Morpus 6:30
That’s fair.

Garrett Carlson 6:33
The entire thing just passed me by.

Nick Morpus 6:35
not that’s fair. Right. Um, I grew up reading them. But, uh, I could definitely see if you weren’t at the right age at the right time, you know, it just, it could just pass you by pretty easily.

Garrett Carlson 6:53
Yeah, and especially, it’s one of those things where in my opinion, I felt like because at this point now, it’s just so long has passed that I’m not gonna bother trying to start reading the Harry Potter books until I have children.

Nick Morpus 7:11
Well, hey, actually, that’ll give you a good. Just watch. You’ll end up liking it more than your children.

Garrett Carlson 7:18
Maybe I will. Maybe I won’t. I hope my kids like professional wrestling. I hope my kids like sports. I hope they like to read. I hope they know how to read. I have low expectations.

Nick Morpus 7:34
I was gonna say like, damn. Okay, I mean, hopefully we can we can make that happen.

Garrett Carlson 7:40
Yeah, well, future future children.

Garrett Carlson 8:29
But let’s actually transition to our main topic for today.

Nick Morpus 8:42
Yeah. I usually stay off of Twitter for good reason.

Garrett Carlson 8:47
I think it’s for the best.

Nick Morpus 8:49
it’s definitely for the best.

Garrett Carlson 8:51
So let’s talk about our main topic today. And that is the music we grew up with and masculinity. I know on my end I grew up listening and loving, pop-punk music. So that meant Yellowcard, Taking Back Sunday New Found Glory, sort of a lot of those bands that really sort of came up when I was in high school. And that love of that genre followed me all through college, still to this day, but I also had this realization that a lot of this music is kind of problematic.

Nick Morpus 9:35
You’re telling me fart jokes are problematic. It depends on the pop-punk you’re listening to.

Garrett Carlson 9:43
Yeah, if we’re talking about Blink-182, yeah, there’s definitely some problematic stuff there too. Although, I don’t think as I’m thinking even more, maybe even less than the I’m a pop-punk but a lot of the emo stuff.

Nick Morpus 10:05
Yeah, I definitely agree with you there. As someone who also grew up listening to a lot of that stuff a lot of the Taking Back Sunday and then like all the happier pop pop punk and then like a sadder emo. I guess like what you could say is like, troubling topics a lot of interesting mindsets, especially like from bands that I love, like Taking Back Sunday like a lot of stuff that’s when you listen to stuff like Cute Without the E I mean, just in the title itself. Very damaging stuff, I guess if you if you take it seriously as a kid.

Garrett Carlson 10:52
Yeah, so I remember the first Taking Back Sunday song that I ever heard was “You’re so last summer” and I was really attracted to it because it was so different. But looking at I believe the it would be the second verse. The lyric is “I’ll do what I got to/ the truth is you could slit my throat/ and with my one last gasping breath/ I’d apologize for bleeding on your shirt.” Like, that’s really fucked up.

Nick Morpus 11:27
I can’t help but laugh at it anymore. I know. It is really messed up. I guess I’m thinking from thinking about like what you think of as a teenager and you’re like, Oh, that’s so deep. And it’s like, that is so edgy. Actually, I have that album right here on my desk. I have that exact album you’re talking about.

Garrett Carlson 11:56
It’s it is fantastic. It is still really one of those sentimental albums that , it doesn’t sound good anymore.

Nick Morpus 12:07
You take that back. No, I’m just messin’ around. The production value is not as good as I once thought it was. They definitely got in terms of music quality, I definitely think they got better as they got older and kind of broke out of that edgy, emo phase.

Garrett Carlson 12:34
I would absolutely agree with that. I do think they definitely grew up as their sort of albums, as they actually kind of grew up. But, you know, for someone like me, a lot of those bands it really influenced how I saw life. And one of outside of Taking Back Sunday the other probably most influence influential band in my life was Brand New. And keyword was is because for anyone who doesn’t know Jessie I don’t know how to pronounce his last name. He was basically he was #metooed and for a long time, was soliciting pictures from underage girls and basically just being like a really horrible person.

Nick Morpus 13:43
Yeah, imagine how all the Lost Prophets fans feel.

Garrett Carlson 13:50
I only know of that story like loosely. I don’t know.

Nick Morpus 13:55
That’s bad. We don’t need to recount that one. We can we can stick to Brand New.

Garrett Carlson 14:01
Okay, just as bad or.

Nick Morpus 14:04
The Lost profit same way worse. He’s a horrible person.

Garrett Carlson 14:11
I don’t know what it is with this music, but like attracting horrible people.

Nick Morpus 14:17
I mean, I don’t know if I could blame the music necessarily for attracting the horrible people. I mean, you know, like, I feel like you can write music like this and not be a terrible person. I mean, if I mean obviously, I don’t think you’re actually saying that this music makes people horrible people now like, Marilyn Manson isn’t killing people or, or anything like that. But um, I mean, yeah, some of the topics they cover, it makes you wonder, are they just writing this stuff because they know like, this is how teenagers feel at the time, or do they actually feel that way? You know, like, Simple Plan stuff, you know? It’s all sad and, “I’m just a kid my life is a nightmare. Nobody likes me.” You know, why did my girlfriend break up with me she’s terrible, you know, stuff like that. Brand New is a little more is definitely deeper than that.

Garrett Carlson 15:22
And even kind of darker. There’s a song titled “Me versus Maradona versus Elvis,” which really implies date rape. Which is just, it’s something that I wasn’t able to put together until I got older. But, like, the lyrics are really screwed up. And they’re one of those bands that meant so much to me. And also now I just cannot listen to them.

Nick Morpus 16:01
Oh, man.

Garrett Carlson 16:03
I literally went cold turkey. And I actually genuinely don’t have any interest in revisiting their catalogue.

Nick Morpus 16:14
What’s interesting, I mean, do you when something like that happens? I feel for the other band members, unfortunately. Because I mean, it’s like if they knew about it, and they didn’t do anything about it then yeah, I don’t really feel bad. I don’t feel bad at all, but like the ones who just happen to get caught up in it because they have a band member who does really terrible things and they didn’t know about it. You know what this does to them? Because I mean, I don’t feel like it invalidates necessarily the their art like what They put into it but I can definitely see how it’s like you know for someone like you love brand new growing up how that could just make you not want to have want to have anything to do with them music just can completely turn you off to it.

Garrett Carlson 17:17
I think a lot of it depends on who is the person that is really guilty or who committed these these these acts. So for Jesse like it is you cannot listen to Brand New and sort of escape from him. His lyrics, his voice, but the guitarist from New Found Glory, he also was convicted. Or I should say also he was convicted of I believe child pornography. And he is not the lead singer. He did write a lot of the lyrics but he is more forgettable member of the band.

Nick Morpus 18:02
I mean it’s not like you know, a guitarist no pop punk band that’s that’s pretty easy to to ignore. You know it’s not like Eddie Van Halen or something like that where it’s like you can’t separate the music you can’t separate the band from the guitarist or whatever you know some like New Found Glory it’s pretty easy to not think about that or to separate those two.

Garrett Carlson 18:27
You mean potential Limp Bizkit guitarist Eddie Van Halen.

Nick Morpus 18:33
Hey, I mean, just just as an aside West Borland as an incredible guitarist.

Garrett Carlson 18:45
I remember the drummer’s name is Otto. And they have DJ Lethal. I can’t remember the other dude’s name. Fred Durst. Yeah, like he’s just kind of an asshole. Maybe like we don’t even know.

Nick Morpus 19:11
He could be a really actually sensitive person. When he’s not in public. This could just all be a front. I’m just imagining Fred Durst you know dressed kind of more hipstery when he’s at home, and he recites like avant garde poetry to his to like his hamster.

Garrett Carlson 19:31
Maybe “Nookie” is just kind of a love song.

Nick Morpus 19:35
Boy, speaking of problematic songs.

Garrett Carlson 19:41
And if we, if we look at all of this music that young boys were told to listen to, outside of like, if we talk past Nirvana. But that grunge era where I would argue grunge music was pretty introspective.

Nick Morpus 20:10
Mm hmm.

Garrett Carlson 20:11
But we before that, we had hair bands, which was treating women like shit. grunge music, introspective. Whatever Korn and Limp Bizkit were, which was still treating women like shit. And then you have your pop punk music, which, I mean, Green Day, I think Green Day is sort of an outlier. But a lot of those bands really sort of perpetuate this really terrible behavior.

Nick Morpus 20:52
Well, what’s interesting too, is that I mean, yeah, yeah, you’re right. So you go from hairbands, which yeah, very misogynistic. Sex, drugs, rock and roll, women are objects to the 90s where grunge was very introspective. You go to like the early 2000s you’ve moved into pop punk and it’s become a lot more juvenile but if you look at like a lot more current era pop punk you move past you know some of that New Found Glory stuff and you get into some of the newer stuff like Real Friends and The Wonder Years I think it’s kind of it’s going from being that way to a little more mature now. It’s still it’s kind of reminiscent of like mid 2000s emo in some ways like especially Wonder Years once you start reading into the lyrics and find out sad they are. But I feel like and I think it’s it is a product of its time. Some of that problem. material is kind of going to the wayside at least in terms of treating women like shit. Now, I still think it’s grappling with the problem of men not being able to deal with their feelings and their emotions. It’s a little self a little overly self deprecating. But I’d say there is some progress there. At least as far as pop punk is concerned.

Garrett Carlson 22:29
Have you ever listened to Set Your Goals?

Nick Morpus 22:34
Oh, yeah. Yeah, I didn’t listen to them like a lot, but I’ve listened to them.

Garrett Carlson 22:42
So I remember reading an interview with the two lead singers who have set your goals and I remember them talking about this statement. They made a statement something along the lines of we don’t write songs about girls, and at the time, so this would have been probably 2007 to maybe 2009 in that timeframe. I remember reading that and just kind of being surprised, like I didn’t. That concept just didn’t make sense to me.

Nick Morpus 23:17
I mean, that was a very common thing to write songs about girls and everything, especially in the pop punk genre. So that is pretty surprising.

Garrett Carlson 23:25
Yeah, and as I’ve gotten older, like I’ve really actually appreciated that. And that’s something else that I really appreciate about The Wonder Years is I think they have one song about a relationship, like in a negative light. The rest are about themselves about where they grew up about who they want to be. And, like, there is sadness in their lyrics, but also a lot of hope.

Nick Morpus 23:59
I agree. I mean, I love that with the especially with The Wonder Years, every album seems to encompass like a real time in their lives. Like what is that one? Suburbia, I’ve given you all and now I’m nothing like I love it. It’s all about just living in Philadelphia suburbs. And it’s it’s kind of cool that they make it about like and this is kind of what my point was about pop punk overall, at least recently at least a little more recently is that it’s it’s grown up a bit and it’s not just about fart jokes and I hate my girlfriend it’s it’s kind of become a little more than that. Now, will pop punk become a genre that’s going to be heavily respected in the music industry? Probably not, but it’s definitely growing up.

Garrett Carlson 24:55
There are few bands who becomes successful and like sort of stay pop punk. And I’m thinking along the lines of like all time low they’re a band that definitely transitioned from being kind of a at one point being thought of as like the next Blink 182 into a band that became popular and also became a little more well rounded. Mm hmm. I would even argue in some ways a lot of green days later out later stuff like there was still a punkiness to it, but like When September Ends that is a song that you know, is it a pop punk song?

Nick Morpus 25:48
Do you want to feel old? Just remember that that song is 16 years old now. Oh, goodness. Yeah. You know, it’s interesting about Green Day and I’ve noticed this over the past couple years. Yours it seems like Billy Joe Armstrong and all them are really feeling their age and it’s causing them to kind of revert back to really old Green Day. I don’t know like trying to be super rebellious and everything I don’t know I just find it kind of funny it’s it’s it’s fun to listen to I still like it. I don’t care what anybody says I’ll always love Green Day, but it’s it’s so interesting when you can definitely tell a band is hitting like a midlife crisis.

Garrett Carlson 26:33
I yes. I think that’s what Blink 182 should name their next album.

Nick Morpus 26:41
It been going through a midlife crisis for a little while now. And I love Blink 182 I love that band. I don’t care what anyone says. I love that band. But

Garrett Carlson 26:51
I’m gonna go in on them a little bit.

Nick Morpus 26:53
I figured you would. But ever since Tom left the band again. The band has kind of reverted back to really old Blink 182 stuff like a little more childish and everything, which I mean, I can still appreciate because I like it. And I felt at times Tom was just making the band the second Angels and Airwaves but yeah, they’ve definitely kind of reverted back and they’re having their midlife crisis moment.

Garrett Carlson 27:24
Yes. So I love Untitled, it is still my favorite blank album and I actually really like Neighborhoods. I think there’s some really good songs on it.

Nick Morpus 27:34
It’s a good one.

Garrett Carlson 27:35
But then looking at at California, their first album with Matt Skiba from Alkaline Trio, the songs like Kings of the Weekend. Teenage satellites, Blame it on my Youth. Those songs worked when TRL, but they’re missing that that, that that fan base growing up with them. I don’t want to listen to stuff about weekend warriors. I’m 32 years old. I’m almost 33 like, I get heartburn after one beer. Like you think I’m gonna do a keg stand?

Nick Morpus 28:27
I mean, I like I actually really liked California only because it’s like, oh, like one more time I get to I get to hear this stuff. You know, this is like my, my last chance to hear some old blank the way they used to be. And I feel like they’re I think their new album was a little more. What was it called nine. I haven’t listened to the whole thing but I listen to a couple songs. And it kind of grew up with just a little bit but I mean, I get it. To what you’re saying about that album, it definitely was like, yeah, we’re not 45 you know, like, we can make some young people songs, right. And

Garrett Carlson 29:13
Steve Bescemi meme.

Nick Morpus 29:15
Yeah, it, it kind of is that, I liked it, but it definitely has that feeling. And it’s almost like they wrote that for the people who are getting upset that Blink was changing. And I feel like now that we’ve gotten that out of the way can we actually grow back up again because I actually really liked Neighborhoods. That was a good album. And it was I felt like it was appropriate for their age. Mark hoppus is not doing tech stands anymore. Maybe Travis Barker is but but Mark’s not doing that anymore.

Garrett Carlson 29:54
Yeah, there’s there’s just there is so much life that all three of them. They have quite a few songs that I like. They’re also a band that has some pretty problematic lyrics. But I think of songs like time to kill that were more atmospheric. So that was off of Crimson. So actually, pretty much the entire Crimson album in a lot of ways was, to me, just like, even growth in sound that I think he can bring to the table of Blink. And I think Tom also brought that sort of difference in what he wanted to do and sort of experimentation.

Nick Morpus 30:51
Yeah, he definitely did. I mean, everything he did with Angels and Airwaves, I mean, he changed his entire vocal style wildly With them in between Neighborhoods and Untitled. And, yeah, I’d like to see more of that mature sound again, if a tom seems to be dedicating his time these days to hunting UFOs and I’m sure he feels pretty vindicated as of last week. But that that’s that’s what he’s spending his time doing. He’d rather hunt UFOs than, than write fart jokes on so yeah, more power to do what you want to do Tom

Garrett Carlson 31:33
And I am, I have actually found myself even shifting in what kind of music I like I listening to. so there is I don’t know if I would call them a pop punk band, but it’s a band called Jetty Bones. It’s a female lead singer, and like they have pop punk tendencies. But it’s also it’s a little bit of Paramore. It’s a little bit of like Imogen Heap. It’s good stuff and all also, I am obsessed with The 1975. They’re my wife and I’s band.

Nick Morpus 32:28
I’ve heard of them. I know they’re a lot newer. And I’ve like I probably have heard a song or two by them.

Garrett Carlson 32:38
They’re, they’re one of those bands that are. I don’t want to talk too much about them because I’m going to do a huge retrospective for my birthday. And on their second album, which I’m super excited to write. I think it’ll also just take me forever and I’d love to talk more about it. Maybe we can actually listen to the album together. We could talk about it, but they’re a band that that is is not afraid to take risks. So they make if you even just listen to the new singles from their album coming out pretty soon, they just hit a wide variety of genres. The opening track is spoken word by Greta Thunberg, then it just goes into this like super heavy, like rock song like the heaviest song they’ve probably ever written. And then transitions into this just talking heads infused pop song that you just can’t get out of your head like they’re one of those bands that they just kind of throw a bunch of stuff at the wall and all of it works, huh.

Nick Morpus 33:58
I had to give him a shot then yeah, I’ve been trying to look for some new music lately. I think you already know my tastes, even though we share some some of my tastes run a little heavier. So, I stumbled across this band, I think like a month or two ago, I’ve just been digging so much. It’s called crazy 88. And they’re like a mix of a couple of genres like hardcore, post hardcore, a little bit of metal core, and they’re, they have a female lead singer. It’s essentially this like supergroup of like these YouTube artists, and they all kind of came together to make a band. They started off doing covers of other people’s songs, and now they’ve started writing their own stuff. And they kind of have like almost, it’s like a newer age under oath, maybe because just it’s great. stuff. I don’t know what it is about them their lead singer, what’s her name? Let me see if I can find it. Um, her name is Lauren Babic and she’s just a kick ass vocalist. She’s so good at everything she does, like she can do clean and unclean vocals like perfectly She sounds better than a lot of male vocalists that I hear these days like she sounds fantastic. So that’s been kind of what I’ve been going for lately. I’ve been.

Garrett Carlson 35:33
I find it interesting that both of the bands that we like the two bands that we first said both had female lyricist and female lead singers.

Nick Morpus 35:43
Mm hmm. Yeah, that’s becoming a big thing, especially in like male dominated genres. Like metal. I’ve been finding that a lot, a lot more female vocalist, and to be honest, I’ve been finding the female vote. able to do the vocals I like some, sometimes a lot better than the men can do it.

Garrett Carlson 36:08
Yeah, and I think in terms of just popularity, a lot of credit, I am sure there are tons of bands who I am forgetting, or ignoring or or just are ignorant of. But I think of, you know those more rock infused bands, you know, you had your Gwen Stefani’s you had your Hayley Williams, and then even a band like churches, I would say, like really are changing for at least young women. Like what bands like they’re exposed to, which I think is awesome.

Nick Morpus 37:00
Yeah, I mean, so I guess going off of that, nowadays, like who we really see as like a positive, like musical influence for males, because it seems like women have quite a few nowadays to go off of like, oh, what’s her face? She just won a Grammy. I can’t remember what her name is the like this 18 year old girl can remember her name. She has green hair. Oh,

Garrett Carlson 37:35
Billy Eilish.

Nick Morpus 37:36
That’s the one Yeah, um, God, I can’t believe I forgot her name. She’s so popular.

Garrett Carlson 37:43
It was like, for a long time, like the biggest pop stars have been female. It was, you know, Taylor Swift, who you can argue is probably still the biggest pop star world.

Nick Morpus 37:57
Very true. I just wonder like, What? What are like the more positive male role models for, like someone growing up these days? I mean, you know, the most popular types of music I can think of right now are like, you know, trap and stuff like that. And I hear all the time now you got, again, like, this is not going to be me going off on some like, you know, like, Oh my gosh, today’s music kids, they’re getting bad influences. I grew up listening to deathcore I mean, you know, so, I’m not gonna sit here and like, judge someone else’s music is saying like, this is not good for the kids to listen to. But I like wonder like, where are those, doesn’t have to necessarily come through in the music. Because I mean, I listened to deathcore I still do. And it’s not like I’m going to be drinking the blood of a goat anytime soon. But like the band members themselves You know, who have good lessons to teach or they’re just good people like the who, what, who really comes to mind for you, when you think of like more newer age artists that are doing good things, I guess, like providing those role models for for men.

Garrett Carlson 39:18
I think that’s tough, at least in terms of, like when I’m thinking of rock bands nowadays, the lead singer was, you know, is typically the face of the band. And a lot of male lead singers are kind of just falling into the background with the rest of the band, like they’re a unit opposed to a single individual. And so as you’re talking, my first thoughts were thinking of like the hip hop community. And I immediately thought of like Kendrick Lamar. I don’t know, I think that is a really tough question. I think you know, similar to how we were talking about last week that women have been having this conversation for a long time. So, you know, pieces of art like Beyonce as lemonade could exist. Like I don’t think guys are capable of doing that yet. I don’t know if any of that makes sense.

Nick Morpus 10:41
No, no, I mean, it does. If you really think about it, you know, a lot of the most popular music with men is typically more aggressive. And it’s I guess in a way you could think about it as empowering you in a certain way, so long as you’re not taking the music too seriously, at least depending on the type of music you’re listening to. So I guess that’s why I was trying to like look outside of the music like, what what are these people doing outside of their music that provides that positive? You know, that positive role model for men these days? Kendrick Lamar is a good example.

Garrett Carlson 41:25
I would, I would also say, John Legend.

Nick Morpus 41:31
That’s a good one.

Garrett Carlson 41:32
Yeah. I think like he is a an outspoken positive, you know, force in the community. He has a really healthy marriage. And he’s a good father. And he also kind of pushes back on a lot of traditional male sort of stereotypes. Like he also spends so much time with his family he he does a lot of cooking. He’s well dressed. Like I think he’s definitely a good example for young men. At least when it comes to music.

Nick Morpus 42:17
Yeah, I definitely agree when it comes to him. But what about the lead singer from Trapt?

Garrett Carlson 42:25
I haven’t heard of that band and forever.

Nick Morpus 42:27
Oh, have you not heard any of the news lately with this guy?

Garrett Carlson 42:30
No. What did he do?

Nick Morpus 42:32
Oh my god like that parody account. He’s not doing it someone else’s. I think like he. Oh my god. So apparently, like the rock community has been blowing up because this guy has just been picking Twitter fights with everybody. Like being the internet tough guy. And like, I don’t even know exactly how this started. But everyone kind of he, he would go off on Twitter, at people who disagree with Trump, or whatever. So he’s one of those types. And lately, he’s been getting in Twitter pissing contests with literally anybody who says something to him. And so now everyone’s just referring to them as like that one band with the one song you liked when you were 12. I just don’t understand. Like, what? So I feel like you can like aggressive music. I do. You can write aggressive music. It doesn’t mean you have to be an aggressive, just angry person all the time. And I feel like when we’re talking about positive male role models, and you see someone like this guy who writes a song I’m all about being well, headstrong. And I think he just takes it a little too seriously. Like, I think when he wrote that song, maybe he was being really serious. And he wasn’t just trying to write a banger at the time. And I don’t know. I just when I when I think of positive male role models in music. It’s so hard to really actually come by, I don’t know. And this guy is like the perfect example of like people who really get in their own head about, you know what it is they’re actually writing.

Garrett Carlson 44:41
It looks like he got into an argument with Ronnie Radke, which, like, he’s also a terrible person. If those two are getting into an argument.

Nick Morpus 44:51
I think I read that tweet. And I think it’s pretty bad. When Ronnie has the moral high ground or something in an argument against you, you should start reconsidering your life choices.

Garrett Carlson 45:08
That is, that is probably one of the most accurate statements anyone could make.

Nick Morpus 45:13
It’s just, like, dude, you just, you just got owned by Ronnie Radke. You need to like, you need to figure your stuff out, man. That’s another thing. Oh, sorry You go first.

Garrett Carlson 45:31
No, I mean, I just think that they’re like after you brought that up, I do think there is a significant lack of strong male role models in music.

Nick Morpus 45:45
Yeah, I mean, it’s not just one genre of music either. It’s not just pop punk. You know, it’s it’s every genre. I mean, I can’t tell you how many times or it’s like you find like for instance, you know, I think Love metal, and a big thing that, you know happened in my community like 10 years ago, I think it was 10 years ago, is the lead singer of As I Lay Dying, was arrested for attempting to hire a hitman to kill his, his wife. I mean, apparently he’s a lot better now. And, you know, the band got back together. And, you know, but that was just like, that’s a huge thing. He says, like, it was kind of going back to one of our, I think our last podcast, you know, he blamed some of it on roid rage. He was, you know, building a lot of muscle and taking steroids and he blames some of his decisions on roid rage or whatever. But it’s like these things. Like, it’s like, who can you actually hold up as a role model? Because one minute they could seem like a great person and then the next minute they’re hiring a hitman to kill their wives or in the case of Ronnie Radke. That’s it. He was a role model really at any point, but what did he do again? Something with

Garrett Carlson 47:07
I think he was acessory to murder. I think there was like a street fight and he was there or he like was in the fight and the the guy that were fighting took a fall, like slammed his head and died. Well, if I remember correctly, I do know that he I have heard that he is attempting to be a better person. I don’t really know one way or the other.

Nick Morpus 47:39
That one’s not as bad. That’s not as intentional. Yeah. As like someone like the guy from As I Lay Dying. And then like, you know, you have the guy from last prophets who got, you know, arrested for what was it something like I think it was something like trying to have sex with it. And then you have the guy from brand new. And it’s like, you know, where are these positive male role models? I’m sure they’re out there. And I’m just not thinking of them because unfortunately, the bad ones seem to stand out quite a lot either by what they do, or by what they they’ve done or by what they continue to do, such as the guy from trapped. But yeah, like it’s, I feel like I can see your point where it’s like males are missing those role models and music, they’re really missing out on them.

Garrett Carlson 48:42
Absolutely. I think these lyrics from The Wonder Years really kind of tie up our argument in a lot of ways or this discussion. “Growing up means watching my heroes turn human in front of me. The songs we wrote at 18 seem short sighted and naive.”

Nick Morpus 49:00
That’s actually perfect. I can’t think of a better. I can’t think of a better wrap up than that. That’s a,

Garrett Carlson 49:07
that’s perfect. Yeah, I think once again, though, The Wonder Years kind of sums up what it means to be growing up.

Nick Morpus 49:18
Right, there’s nothing, there’s nothing like a good sense of self awareness. I think that they might even be writing that about their own music. Maybe like some of their older stuff, because I mean, I can happen. There are things that I wrote like, even just a few years ago, you know, or it’s like, not saying like, it’s problematic, but like you can you read an article wrote and you see grammatical errors or whatever. Doesn’t matter what it is. And you know, as you get older, you start to think back on everything that it is that you’ve wrote or said, and it’s really interesting how all of that changes, especially when it comes to your heroes. I mean, you see Just how different they are when you get older and you know the veil is lifted.

Garrett Carlson 51:28
Well, folks, we feel like this is probably a good time to wrap it up. And so if you’re listening, shoot us a message on Twitter or on Facebook. Who do you think are some of the best male role models and music for for young men and for men in general, we’d love to hear what you have to say. So you can just send us an email, a direct message, whatever you want, get in touch with us. But for Nick, I’m Garrett and we hope you have a wonderful evening. Good night.

Garrett Michael Carlson
Garrett Carlson is the founder of Dudefluencer.com, an online men's magazine dedicated to publishing articles around positive masculinity and men's self-care. A graduate of the Johns Hopkins Non-Fiction writing program, he loves to break traditional storytelling norms intermixing personal narrative, comedy, and research to talk about men's issues. Garrett currently lives in Northern Virginia with his wife, two cats, and Icelandic Sheepdog, Orla.

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